There has been an interesting exchange going on in the comments section. I want to pull them up in a post for all to see.
Costa says:
Not all of the people on that site are bad, there is one that you have claimed to be a bad person…but the rest of the people on there are people just like you and me. They have families, and jobs. And care about each other, if you would post the majority of the threads you would see that, even kimmer will type inspirational comments to people. She is a very small part of Kimkins, so please get a life…and a job. This probly doesn’t pay you very well, does it?
From A look back…., 2008/04/20 at 4:20 PM
2big4mysize says:
costa
you are missing the big picture. The kimkins.com site is about the nutritionally dangerous eating plan created by Kimmer sold by kimmer, falsely sold by kimmer based on her 198 pound weight loss and the over 34 fake success stories using before and after pic from the russian bridal sites, and now being supported by folk like you.One would not say the position of the Skinheads nor the KKK is but a small part of those groups even thought the folk who are members have families and jobs and care a lot about their fellow skinheads or KKK members. The same applies to any group that is put together to harm folk. and the EDs and health issues from following a nutritionally bankrupt diet plan do harm folk.
From A look back…., 2008/04/21 at 12:23 PM
Costa says:
Very strange, I posted a reply and it was not listed on here, hummmm????
Anyway, my membership was based on the Kimkins members who are no longer on the site. Not on Kimmer.
And also, speaking of groups such as KKK or skinheads, or Anti KK groups or Kimkins members…are the Anti KK’s out to harm people? I do believe that the KKK and Skinheads are totally different than the Kimkins or Anti KK groups, so not a good comparison, sorry.
I want stats, I want documentation, I want to see cases of illnesses that have been caused solely on the bases of the Kimkins way of eating, not genetics or hereditary conditions that were worsened…I want facts, people keep saying it is dangerous, but no one says why and what has happened to them on this diet other than wt loss, and one person with palpitations..I got those with my “change of life”. If you want to make a point to all current Kimkins members, that you need to post actual things that actual people have faced. Something that will make us think, rather than “its an unhealthy way of eating”, this just makes me defensive.Costa—if you left a post it gets put up right then. I do not moderate posts on this blog. The spam catcher will pull posts with too many links in them. When you hit that submit button–it will show immediately if you don’t see it, it did not take. If it gets sent to moderation for whatever reason, it will say specifically awaiting moderation.—-BG
From A look back…., 2008/04/22 at 6:41 PM
2big4mysize says:
I have no idea where your post went. I didn’t see it though.
Actually my analogy is fine. ASny group you would not feel comfortable being a part of can be used for making the comparison I could have said replubicans and democrates since this is an election yr. The point is the site sells a dangerous nutrtionally bankrupt plan and just cause members got families and friends doesn’t mean the site is okay to hang out on since by being a member of a group your approval of the purpose of the group is inferred. the purpose of the kimkins.con site is to promote the diet. By being a member and posting about losing weight following the plan you are also helping to sell the plan to new folk.
Have you sat down with your doctor and discussed the portion sizes of the veggies fats and proteins? have you discussed the lack of exercise? the lack of calories? Have you discussed the plan as written by Kimmer with a nutrtionist even a low carb following nutrtionist who understands ketosis? They can explain to you what ailments you will be facing from doing Kimkins.
did Kimmer commision a study on the health effects of her eating plan? Nope so I doubt you will see any documentation of all the problems following the plan will cause, but you can read the stories of over 100 former KK followers who had health realated issues after doing the plan on the Kimkins survivors site.
Costa the human body has a need daily for fats. Certain types of fats are not stored in fat cells nor can the human body manufactor them so they like essential amino acids must be consumed daily. There are no warnings on the Kimkins.con site the plan being too low in those. Certain vitamins are called fat soluble because they can only be disolved in fats and the human body will only absorb them if fats are present in the diet in amounts needed for their absorption.
Since any posts about this type of info gets deleted on kimkins.con site new folk and those who were not on site reading the topic it was posted in before it got deleted never learn from the kimkins.con site about this. you can swallow all the mulit-VPs you want but without fats in the diet those vits will not be absorbed.
I discussed with Tippy Toes the health issues of eating the plan on my blog 2big4mysize.wordpress.com if you want to check some of them out or you could do a little research into a conditon called rabbit starvation, and the effects of low carb low cal on thyroids as studied by Brohda Barnes to get your started on the negative health aspects of following the kimkins plan.From A look back…., 2008/04/22 at 7:23 PM
Costa says:
I did look into your site, and to the site Kimkins survivors, but did not read them all. I was mainly seeing slams and that distracts from any harmful or helpful as you would say, information. I have the “want” to this information, but without all of the negative. I do feel that if they have all of this info, and the way it is said they have enough to shut this site down, these blogs to pull more people in are really not needed. If there are health issues, and people are dying, this should be top priority, and should be shut down. What is the hold up? That also makes me wonder about the information thats out there. If it is so dangerous, why can’t they shut it down, or freeze it so no new members can join? Maybe some of the stories that you have read aren’t all due to Kimkins, ??
From A look back…., 2008/04/23 at 4:08 AM
2big4mysize says:
the wheels of justice move slowly, but the FCC, and CA AJ are investigating as are other agencies so it will get shut down BUT in the mean time the blogs get placed on the search engines so somebody looking for information on Kimkins will not get sucked into the kimpire without seeing any information about the dangers of the diet as over 30,000 were in June of 07 after the only info out there was affiliates and kimkins.con
Have you looked into the EFAs missing from the diet as written? have you looked at the need for dietary fats? Have you discussed the kimkins plan with your doctor in detail and not saying I’m eating lean proteins and low carb veggies, but with the actual serving sizes of those veggies and limited amounts and the fact use of fats is discouraged? Has Kimmer stopped advocating the use of salad spritzers as the dressing of choice? Is she now saying to use nontransfats in your cooking? or is she still saying use a spray of Pam? I noticed she did add a serving of dairy with the nonfat yogurt but again the fats are missing.Has Kimmer ever had a dietician or nutrtionist endorse her plan on the site? I sure have never seen anything close.
Dr Mark last fall was posting stuff for folk to eat that was not allowed on the diet in his nutrtion recommendations.
So if it takes the bloggers and the FWK topic to inform folk about the dangers and keep them from becoming the next victim on the survivor page until Kimkins.con becomes a 404 error page then we will just have to keep posting information about her and the plan.
From A look back…., 2008/04/23 at 4:06 PM
Costa says:
I take it you are a professional, and I want you to tell me as a Dr what I will experience, healthwise in the near future. No I did not tell my Dr details, I told him of a great number of lbs lost in a very short amount of time and my concern that it may have an effect on my heart, and that I lost it eating an extremely low amount of carbs, my exact words. He had no concern and didn’t feel the need to know more, he has been my dr since I was a child, I do trust him an feel he would have been alarmed if he felt the need. Small community and close relationships with everyone. And I openly would have told him everything that I’ve eaten or not eaten.
And I used the spray Pam prior to Kimkins, so why not use it on plan as well? And salad spritzer, I use on occasion, but prefer good ole Ranch, fork dipped of course, and that is wrong?
Kimmer is no more of a specialist than you or I, and the advice should not be unhealthy, but I prefer to leave it up to the professionals and you should too.
If it is meant to be the site will be shut down, or closed to new members till this suit is settled. But until then there will continue to be new members regardless of what these blogs post….as they also feel the way I do, show me something in stone, or shut the site down, if you can’t do that than maybe you don’t have accurate info to do eitherFrom A look back…., 2008/04/23 at 5:59 PM
Who wants to respond to Costa????
Your turn…..
Filed under: Kimkins | Tagged: anorexia, bulimia, eating disorders, health problems, Heidi Diaz, Kimkins, Kimkins Survivors, Kimmer, mental health, starvation diet, very low calorie diet |
Diary of a Mad Housewife 
[…] unknown wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptThe kimkins.com site is about the nutritionally dangerous eating plan created by Kimmer sold by kimmer, falsely sold by kimmer based on her 198 pound weight loss and the over 34 fake success stories using before and after pic from the … […]
Costa, what are your feelings about Heidi Diaz using fake success stories that she wrote herself? How do you feel about her using pictures for those stories, and for her own after picture, that she took from online Russian bride sites? How do you feel about Heidi Diaz/Kimmer lying about her own weight loss and years of maintenance?
Do you think that if the plan was one that was safe, healthy, and worked without risk that Heidi Diaz would have had to resort to fraud in order to lure customers in?
Are Heidi Diaz’s actions those of someone who has nothing to hide and who has had a history of successes with her plan?
Do you trust Heidi Diaz? You say “Kimmer is no more of a specialist than you or I..” Do you feel she has the right to sell memberships to a diet based not on education and scientific research but something she made up and didn’t follow herself?
Are you willing to risk your health based on this kind of history?
Do you honestly think that so many ex-members (and even those who were never members) have nothing better to do with their time than to work this hard and devote this much effort to something other than the hope of helping/saving people from damaging their health?
Do you feel confident enough in Heidi Diaz’s advice, diet, and integrity that you’d have no concerns if someone you loved were to follow the plan (your daughter, niece, sister, mother, husband…)?
I know these are a lot of questions but ask them of yourself.
My blog: Weighing The Facts
I have no feelings regarding Heidi Diaz, period.
I didn’t hear of any problems with this way of eating till it would have been too late for me, but have had NO problems, unhealthy? nope, I can’t say that it was unhealthy for me.
Heidi trying to hide? Don’t care
A bunch of women who are mad at another woman, that I can believe….I guess it is just hard to pinpoint a health issue documentation that was solely caused by the Kimkins way of eating, I tried to google “low carb muscle loss damage” but that wouldn’t give me any good info either directly connecting it to Kimkins way of eating. I am not saying that it is completely healthy, but there are so many diet pills/& plans out there that are so dangerous, but you have all focused on this one.
I have 2 friends, and several relatives that have been doing Kimkins, I was the first…they have to this day had no problems
We could go back an fourth with this, and it would be this whole group vs me, but I will not…i was a person with a thirst for this knowledge, and am just not getting it I guess, nothing for sure, nothing that has convinced me of the dangers, hopefully I will not have to find out the hard way, but I am feeling very good now, and will continue my way of eating and you will continue yours.
Costa, I hope the following extract from one of my blog posts will convince you of the dangers of the Kimkins diet.
“The starvation experienced by persons with anorexia nervosa and bulimia nervosa can cause damage to vital organs such as the heart and brain. Pulse rate and blood pressure drop, and people often experience irregular heart rhythms or heart failure. Nutritional deprivation causes calcium loss from bones, which can become brittle and prone to breakage.
In the worst-case scenario, people with anorexia nervosa and bulimia nervosa starve themselves to death. These conditions kill up to six percent of their victims.
Many people who followed the Kimkins starvation diet developed serious eating disorders, ultimately becoming pro-ana and/or pro-mia.
Two of the most prominent people who suffered disordered eating as a result of the Kimkins diet are Christin Sherburne and Deni Huttula, the two women featured in Woman’s World magazine when that “magazine” (term used loosely) did a cover story on the deadly Kimkins Diet.
Since the publication of the magazine, both Deni and Christin have left Kimkins and reported the following potentially deadly effects they suffered, and continue to suffer, as a result of following the Kimkins diet:
From Deni:
“Kimmer’s words in response to questions about people who think Kimkins is proana:
‘Low Calories/Pro Ana We are low calorie after ketosis kicks in or with the shake option, but those calories are identical to post-WLS patients (500 cal a day for months), original Optifast and Medifast (450-700 cal a day for months). I don’t think we can fight the ‘1200 calorie a day mentality’. Some people cannot understand that your body takes the calories it needs from body fat if the calories you eat are too low to sustain current weight. If you need 2500 calories (250 lb person) and eat 500 (number picked for easy math), the other 2000 are taken from body fat. In Jimmy’s interview I meant what I said about take a Weight Watcher or Jenny Craig meal and remove the starches. What’s left? Kimkins. There is no health advantage to adding carbs or extra fat, so why is removing them (and having less calories)
dangerous? 1200 calories a day is an arbitrary number (like 8 glasses of water). Anorexia is a psychological disorder. Do we have people with ED on Kimkins? Of course. I weighed 318 pounds and you don’t get that big without an improper relationship with food so I have an ED. But low calories aren’t an ED, otherwise all of the WLS patients would be medically classified anorexic.’ (bolding mine)
“I have seen Kimmer on NUMEROUS occasions tell people to eat less, even when they were eating less than 800 calories a day. She personally recommended to me when I started to stick to ranges between 600 and 800, and to drop to closer to 500 if I stalled. This is what Kimkins is… there is no way you can possibly stick to the “rules” of the plan and end up with more than 800 calories on a regular basis.”
~ and ~
“Here’s my side effects:
1. extra periods (told this was normal)
2. loss of hair … loss of about 60% of my thickness if not more. (told it was normal, and even looked it up online for myself! Saw that it said it was common in people who were dieting and skimmed over the part that said “fad diets” or nutritionally deficient diets.)
3. Lightheaded dizzy spells- never mentioned these to anyone .. they were not an everyday occurrence, and I had them sometimes prior to this diet so I easily ignored them.
4. Weird blurred vision- like my eyes would dilate at different degrees… things would get fuzzy and look far away and warped.. I would then readjust my own “focus” and a few minutes later it was back to normal. Again.. I didn’t mention it.. figured it was a fluke.. it only happened a few times.
5. heart flutters- never mentioned these to anyone either. Even when they happened, I dismissed them in my mind as quickly as I could. (these are still happening randomly)
Other strange things I noticed:
6. Peanut butter CRAVINGS… like really super cravings… and I knew I wasn’t the only one having this. I read post after post after post about people who were feeling guilty for giving into peanut butter or any kind of nuts. So, I wrote this off as “normal”
7. Milkshake CRAVINGS… again.. these cravings were much stronger than any craving I’d ever had before dieting. I heard lots of other people also talk about craving milkshakes, including my mom who also did the diet.
both of these “cravings” were something that I, along with many others, chalked up to a strange coincidence, and I either ignored it.. or caved in a little and then felt extremely guilty about it.
Now, I’m really wondering if there is something in the peanut butter(nuts) and milk shakes that our bodies were SCREAMING for!!! Like maybe more fat? Calcium?
I often typed in “listen to your body” over and over again in posts.. and it wasn’t until late August that I started to realize that even cravings were a way that our body tells us what it needs.
Anyway… I still don’t know if there’s anything wrong with me or not.. my doctor has ordered lots of tests to see where I’m “depleted” of certain things, and warned me strongly that while being extremely overweight isn’t good for your health, or for you heart… that sometimes losing it all super fast and not getting all the nutrients necessary for bodily functions.. is an even quicker route to heart disease.
So, now I’m wondering.. where inside Kimkins does it list “possible side effects”? Where is the “warning label”, the “if these symptoms arise, get it checked out announcement” ?
With EVERY weight loss pill or plan that I’ve ever been on, there has been a warning list.. and a “common side effects” or even “in extreme cases side effects” list.. that I always read. I know myself.. and I just about always choose NOT to take medicines that have side effects that concern me. If I had been warned about these things, I don’t think I would have joined. If I had been warned about the possibility of these things, I certainly would not have convinced others to join!
The sad part really is, is that I didn’t realize that I wasn’t the only one with these symptoms until I started reading OFFSITE.I hated reading those “other forums” because they made everything sound so bad. They made me feel bad, and they exaggerated things so much. But, the symptoms they mentioned sounded vaguely familiar to me. They knotted up my stomach, and made me want to either fight or run away and pretend I never heard what they said.
I saw some try to fight them….
and I resorted to my usual, curl up and ignore it technique for awhile.
If I did mention my worries to others inside Kimkins I only got pats on the back and reassurances that of course everything would be fine, and “that’s normal, don’t worry!”
And NOW.. it’s even worse.. if you even ask about a negative effect, you’re likely to be “accused” of stirring up the pot, or if you point out your negative side effects, you’re likely to get banned. 😦
How is that safe for other members??? Shouldn’t everyone be made aware of symptoms to be on the look out for? I’m sure there are lots more negative effects that I didn’t have… and from the stories I’ve heard elsewhere.. I can only count myself lucky.
This is not a joking matter, this is not time for a “band-aid” announcement that “of course, you should always check with your doctor”. Or even comments to make those of us who “ignored symptoms” appear stupid or crazy or “extreme”. This is time to get real and time to take your health seriously.
How many of you truly talked to your doctors about your plan?
Did you show him the food list?
Did you mention that you really only eat a few items on that list?
Did you show him your fitday?
Did you write symptoms off as normal because you heard someone else had the same thing?
I said that one of the reasons why I wanted to lose weight was because I wanted to be here long enough to see my kids and future grand kids grow up.
Now, it’s possible that losing weight has lowered the chances of that actually happening.
I remember when we often joked about how Kimkins didn’t need that little small print disclaimer of “results not typical” on our success stories.
Perhaps she does need to put up a disclaimer that “results ARE typical” on the side effects listing!!!
If you’re still doing Kimkins, as written or not… please stop for awhile and really take a look at your own symptoms. Don’t glorify your “pros” list and minimize your “cons” list.
You can get those “pros” with lots of safe plans, and eliminate the cons. Just think about it. And don’t ignore the promptings of your heart right now.” (all bolding mine)
~~~~~~~~~~
From Christin:
“The diet program is unsafe and can cause severe damage beginning with slow, unrecognized starvation and malnutrition.
Through the next few months, the dangers of this program became increasingly evident as more members began complaining of the same symptoms and side effects. Slow and steady starvation methods utilizing a caloric intake of significantly less than 1000 calories a day was the norm. The daily intake of less calories and less fat was not only encouraged, but praised as new members began to feel “snatty” (Slightly Nauseous All The Time), lightheaded, and generally weakened. Tips for controlling hunger varied but all were primarily synonymous with little to no caloric intake. All for the sake of losing weight fast. But at what cost to the individual’s physical and psychological condition?
Disguised eating disorders emerged; serious malnutrition indicators like hair loss, heart palpitations, electrolyte and potassium deficiencies were commonly reported. I did not learn of the potentially deadly side effects of my eating habits till after I completed the program. I had shrugged the symptoms that I had off as “typical” or short term.
Bottom line, starvation works to take off pounds – here, just like in Ethiopia or Dachau. The difference is that in those sad places, the people knew they were starving. Kimkins moderators are merely overweight peers with eating disorders of their own (speaking from personal experience), completely unqualified to assess what constitutes nutritional dangers.
Do not let the tantalizing beauty of rapid weight loss hinder the ultimate goal of a better life and good health.
There are many effective and safe weight loss programs out there today. Diet responsibly; do your research; always remember to speak with your physician regarding your plans. Do not desperately trade obesity for broken health.”
~~~~~~~~~~
Costa, the post, in its entirety, can be found here:
http://2medusa.blogspot.com/2008/01/kimkins-pro-ana-pro-mia-la-danse.html
You may also want to check out my Kimkins-related posts listed on the right-hand side of my blog at the following URL:
My blog: Medusa
I, too, hope that you don’t find out the hard way. When your caloric intake is too low, the body feasts on muscles, including your heart. If you want further proof of this, please read this tragic blog post on the blog, Weighing the Facts, here:
http://weighingthefacts.blogspot.com/2008/04/professor-rosemary-pope-dies-of.html
Professor Pope’s “heart was the size of a child’s from having starved herself for so long, the inquest reported.”
I hope this information will cause you to take a closer look at this very deadly starvation diet.
~ Medusa
My blog: Medusa
You have no feelings about Heidi Diaz, being conned, lied to, paying for a product that was misrepresented?
I don’t understand how someone dismisses those things and still trusts and follows the information such a person has supplied. How do you choose to believe information she supplies that has to do with something as important as your health, while ignoring the means that information was given to you?
Have you researched the health side effects of eating very low calories combined with very low fat, starvation mode, metabolism damage, etc? If not, I hope you do.
You say that you and your family and friends following KK have had no problems to date. I don’t know how long you’ve been following the plan but I’m glad to hear you’re not experiencing any ill effects so far.
But, what about down the road? Is your health something you’re willing to risk in order to lose weight when there are healthy and safe alternatives? I had my doctor’s blessing until, that is, I revealed what the plan truly consisted of. Calling it low carb or low carb/ low fat protein is not the whole truth.
I thought I was doing great on KK, too. I was having side effects but so were the majority there. It was explained away as expected and/or a sign you were doing well, following the plan, in ketosis. It felt great to finally be losing weight, getting into smaller clothing sizes, and the compliments.
Less then 3 months into it my hair was falling out (which continued until just a few months ago). I lost a ton of hair. So far I’m not growing it back in all the places I have lost it. I don’t know that I ever will. The reason? Malnutrition. Who determined that? An endocrinologist and my GP.
You have questions about the risks. Have you asked about them on KK? Have you asked Heidi Diaz to show you proof that her way is safe? Has she linked you to studies that show you are not risking your health? Has she come up with something more than her usual reference to WLS patients? I think you have a right to ask her, and a right to be answered. Are you afraid to ask her and be banned from the site (and if this is what’s keeping you from asking her, what does that tell you)?
Maybe it’s time you requested some info from Heidi Diaz. Let her tell you why you’ve made the right choice. Post it on the site so everyone there can share in the answer. Have her back up your decision to follow her diet with some informative links and studies so that you can weigh the evidence and make a well informed decision.
I wish you luck. Stay safe.
Today I had an appointment with my doctor’s wife, an RN and nutritionist. I’ve been doing Atkins since December and have lost 30 pounds so far. I can’t say exactly how much I’m eating, but think it has been in the ball park of 1200 calories a day. Guess what she told me: I am NOT eating enough!
Heidi Diaz’ plan fed into my anorexic tendencies. There were days when I didn’t even eat more than 300 calories. The good old SNATT kicked in, and I didn’t feel like eating at all. But of course, that is exactly what Heidi told us was supposed to happen. In what she calls “real ketosis”, you have no appetite.
When I did her plan, I was a poster girl for it – did it by the book. The deprivation and sick feeling is what made me quit. And once I did, I spiraled into a year of full-on rebellion against anything low carb.
There are many ways to be harmed by this diet. Thank God, I haven’t had the heart complications or other problems that some have had. I was one of the lucky ones. Unfortunately, you never know if you will be the one who ends up at the cardiologist’s office. It’s not worth the risk.
Thank you for good information~~*
Please comeback to visit my blog too : http://about-atkins-diet.blogspot.com/
I’m sorry , If you think this is spam. but may i thank you again.
Bye
Mint,
I am always willing to allow things about the Atkins diet on this blog. I do want to point out—you have many misconceptions on your blog concerning the Atkins approach. From just a quick skim, I noted the same rhetoric being spewed by many others. Vegetables are a large portion of the nutrition of an Atkins eating plan. They are not limited as you wrongly point out. That was just one of the misconceptions of your blog. My advice is you really read Dr Atkins many books.—-BG